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	<title>Comments on: Tidbits</title>
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	<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/</link>
	<description>rock out to the apparatus</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3449</guid>
		<description>Gotta disagree with Mel- I knew kids of squillionaires who did terribly in college.

The ability to do well in school is a function of ability, usable time*, and drive.  obviously changing the exact grading system will change the relative importance of these factors, but money only really effects the second variable.

* Usable time excludes theoretically available time that is lost to disorganization, procrastination, social, fiscal, and biological needs, and the internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta disagree with Mel- I knew kids of squillionaires who did terribly in college.</p>
<p>The ability to do well in school is a function of ability, usable time*, and drive.  obviously changing the exact grading system will change the relative importance of these factors, but money only really effects the second variable.</p>
<p>* Usable time excludes theoretically available time that is lost to disorganization, procrastination, social, fiscal, and biological needs, and the internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Has anyone not seen this by now? What right-wingers see when they read the New York Times&lt;/i&gt;

I hadn't!  Heh.

Long tests...I've had day-long exams (both take-home, open book, and in-class, closed book) before, and they were brain-expanding learning experiences.  I do think they were better tests of my thinking than simpler problems on a shorter test would have been.  But I was privileged enough to be able to attend a private college, majoring in science with a course schedule that made regular work impossible, and fortunate enough to have parental support and an insanely flexible job.

I also had a chem professor who always did 4-question problems sets and exams (very similar), with multi-part questions.  We usually got an hour and a half for tests and 3 for finals, which was normal, and it was tough to finish in that time, but they were definitely the fairest, most thought-provoking short tests I've ever taken.  So you can give students that experience in a normal timespan, I think.

I suspect school, no matter how it's structured, will always be hardest for those with least money and smallest support systems.  I don't know what we can do about it, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Has anyone not seen this by now? What right-wingers see when they read the New York Times</i></p>
<p>I hadn&#8217;t!  Heh.</p>
<p>Long tests&#8230;I&#8217;ve had day-long exams (both take-home, open book, and in-class, closed book) before, and they were brain-expanding learning experiences.  I do think they were better tests of my thinking than simpler problems on a shorter test would have been.  But I was privileged enough to be able to attend a private college, majoring in science with a course schedule that made regular work impossible, and fortunate enough to have parental support and an insanely flexible job.</p>
<p>I also had a chem professor who always did 4-question problems sets and exams (very similar), with multi-part questions.  We usually got an hour and a half for tests and 3 for finals, which was normal, and it was tough to finish in that time, but they were definitely the fairest, most thought-provoking short tests I&#8217;ve ever taken.  So you can give students that experience in a normal timespan, I think.</p>
<p>I suspect school, no matter how it&#8217;s structured, will always be hardest for those with least money and smallest support systems.  I don&#8217;t know what we can do about it, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3408</guid>
		<description>Does the professor giving the 72 hour test instead of the 3.5 hour test also spend 20 times longer grading it?  Or does he just use a mass-based grading approach (e.g. the staircase test)?

As a technician, of course, the short and dirty exam is entirely appropriate.  After all, when the Hauptprofessor walks into lab, peers down his nose at the jumble of electronics that used to be a mass spectrometer, and asks, in his most withering voice, "So, should I come back before lunch, or after?", he isn't interested in a three-day project.  It is no surprise that my best-ever result on a takehome was a C-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the professor giving the 72 hour test instead of the 3.5 hour test also spend 20 times longer grading it?  Or does he just use a mass-based grading approach (e.g. the staircase test)?</p>
<p>As a technician, of course, the short and dirty exam is entirely appropriate.  After all, when the Hauptprofessor walks into lab, peers down his nose at the jumble of electronics that used to be a mass spectrometer, and asks, in his most withering voice, &#8220;So, should I come back before lunch, or after?&#8221;, he isn&#8217;t interested in a three-day project.  It is no surprise that my best-ever result on a takehome was a C-.</p>
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		<title>By: friend of modi's</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3340</link>
		<dc:creator>friend of modi's</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3340</guid>
		<description>Prashant Modi is a spoilt brat and has no sense whatsoever. He is a shame to his father and disgrace to the nation. In india too, he is rude, mannerless, shameless and is overproud of his fathers wealth. Pls ask him what he has contibuted to the name and famme his father YK has ammased during thre years. 

Prashant - u r a shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prashant Modi is a spoilt brat and has no sense whatsoever. He is a shame to his father and disgrace to the nation. In india too, he is rude, mannerless, shameless and is overproud of his fathers wealth. Pls ask him what he has contibuted to the name and famme his father YK has ammased during thre years. </p>
<p>Prashant - u r a shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian (Jay)</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian (Jay)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 03:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3332</guid>
		<description>Eh.  Beyond the accumulation of enough subject background in a given field to not be embarrassed in hallway chitchat at conferences, the vocational function of graduate school is IMO to give the student the tools necessary to teach, write proposals, organize one's research and publish.  While actual proposals and papers are submitted facing deadlines, the actual work is generally done over weeks to months prior...  and in real life, there's usually a point of diminishing returns.  Yes, one *could* revise that paper again, and tweak the changes one made yesterday, and the day before...  but at some point, one is just trying to outguess the reviewers, and making other projects fall behind. So a test in which there's no reasonable breakpoint in the 72 hours given is not a realistic career test, it is just another form of academic ritual hazing ;-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh.  Beyond the accumulation of enough subject background in a given field to not be embarrassed in hallway chitchat at conferences, the vocational function of graduate school is IMO to give the student the tools necessary to teach, write proposals, organize one&#8217;s research and publish.  While actual proposals and papers are submitted facing deadlines, the actual work is generally done over weeks to months prior&#8230;  and in real life, there&#8217;s usually a point of diminishing returns.  Yes, one *could* revise that paper again, and tweak the changes one made yesterday, and the day before&#8230;  but at some point, one is just trying to outguess the reviewers, and making other projects fall behind. So a test in which there&#8217;s no reasonable breakpoint in the 72 hours given is not a realistic career test, it is just another form of academic ritual hazing ;-).</p>
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		<title>By: yami</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3320</link>
		<dc:creator>yami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 04:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3320</guid>
		<description>Didn't think it was to me, but just in case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t think it was to me, but just in case&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Vidale</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3319</link>
		<dc:creator>John Vidale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 03:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3319</guid>
		<description>No. Not directed at you at all.

If my aging memory is correct, it came to my mind because of the annoying tendency of the sillier liberal faculty to occasionally make inappropriate political comments in class.  Then the campus conservatives argue that most faculty are imposing their liberal biases on the innocent students, and should be muzzled.

So faculty should do the right thing, namely only claim expertise where we are truly experts.

Maybe I was subconsciously nervous about posting on non-seismological topics at all, given a lack of anonymity and claim to several titles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Not directed at you at all.</p>
<p>If my aging memory is correct, it came to my mind because of the annoying tendency of the sillier liberal faculty to occasionally make inappropriate political comments in class.  Then the campus conservatives argue that most faculty are imposing their liberal biases on the innocent students, and should be muzzled.</p>
<p>So faculty should do the right thing, namely only claim expertise where we are truly experts.</p>
<p>Maybe I was subconsciously nervous about posting on non-seismological topics at all, given a lack of anonymity and claim to several titles.</p>
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		<title>By: yami</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3317</link>
		<dc:creator>yami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3317</guid>
		<description>I don't think your #2 is controversial at all, for most political questions (global warming, etc., offers occasional exceptions), though it's sometimes hard to be clear about the hat-switching. Do you think I've been muddling my roles, or are you just offering this as a general opinion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think your #2 is controversial at all, for most political questions (global warming, etc., offers occasional exceptions), though it&#8217;s sometimes hard to be clear about the hat-switching. Do you think I&#8217;ve been muddling my roles, or are you just offering this as a general opinion?</p>
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		<title>By: John Vidale</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3316</link>
		<dc:creator>John Vidale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3316</guid>
		<description>OK, sounds good.  A couple more points:

1.  The trade-off between accommodating diverse life-styles and striving to have the most capable scientists can be difficult.  Some physical and social handicaps really are a permanent impediment to achievement, and should count against the people who have them in hiring and tenure decisions.  Other alternate lifestyles are disciminated against for no good reason, and should be protected by affirmative action.

2.  More controversially, when one is on the pedestal of an academic at a recognized institution, it is tempting to offer opinions on matters such as politics.  We can express our opinion on the current adminstration, for example, and I have, but it should be as a citizen, not from our titled position as a scientific expert, nor implying the consensus of our organizations behind our point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, sounds good.  A couple more points:</p>
<p>1.  The trade-off between accommodating diverse life-styles and striving to have the most capable scientists can be difficult.  Some physical and social handicaps really are a permanent impediment to achievement, and should count against the people who have them in hiring and tenure decisions.  Other alternate lifestyles are disciminated against for no good reason, and should be protected by affirmative action.</p>
<p>2.  More controversially, when one is on the pedestal of an academic at a recognized institution, it is tempting to offer opinions on matters such as politics.  We can express our opinion on the current adminstration, for example, and I have, but it should be as a citizen, not from our titled position as a scientific expert, nor implying the consensus of our organizations behind our point of view.</p>
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		<title>By: yami</title>
		<link>http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>yami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greengabbro.net/2006/08/25/tidbits/#comment-3313</guid>
		<description>OK, so colored ;) Underlying my feeling that the sentence is inappropriate is my opinion that this particular law and the usual punishment are both morally acceptable - not the case for many Saudi laws.

My original argument was poorly stated, but I really didn't mean to imply that a lack of family life is a disadvantage, just that: 1. caretaking obligations don't necessarily prevent someone from having a productive career and 2. lots of academics (myself included) have bad time management skills and might overestimate the importance of take-home-exam-style work-bursts. You're starting to convince me on the 2nd point, though.

I still think, though, that this style of exam is probably one of many small factors contributing to a lack of diversity in science. To the extent that we care about this, it makes sense to reduce whatever hardships we can. Grad students also write proposals, collaborate, and do last-minute work for AGU, so if their outside obligations really prevent them from doing science it will be apparent soon enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so colored <img src='http://greengabbro.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> Underlying my feeling that the sentence is inappropriate is my opinion that this particular law and the usual punishment are both morally acceptable - not the case for many Saudi laws.</p>
<p>My original argument was poorly stated, but I really didn&#8217;t mean to imply that a lack of family life is a disadvantage, just that: 1. caretaking obligations don&#8217;t necessarily prevent someone from having a productive career and 2. lots of academics (myself included) have bad time management skills and might overestimate the importance of take-home-exam-style work-bursts. You&#8217;re starting to convince me on the 2nd point, though.</p>
<p>I still think, though, that this style of exam is probably one of many small factors contributing to a lack of diversity in science. To the extent that we care about this, it makes sense to reduce whatever hardships we can. Grad students also write proposals, collaborate, and do last-minute work for AGU, so if their outside obligations really prevent them from doing science it will be apparent soon enough.</p>
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